Why The Church Hates Obama
What to do when you feel your country is no longer built on Christian values (See Bill of Rights)? I cannot tell you how many times I hear people complain about the United States government as of late. I, living in the midwest, the heart of America and all I hear is how good it used to be. No amber waves of grain, No, God shed his grace on thee, am not hearing about liberty. For some reason the resounding cymbal continues to be how our Christian nation is going down the drain and no one is doing anything about it. And of course let’s make sure we do everything we can to rub the Obama card on everyone and say “I told you so!”
Maybe this is you? Maybe you have heard these slicing comments about our current president and lawmakers? Maybe you haven’t said them yet but they are building inside of you? I dunno what you have inside of your brain but let’s not forget history. Read Fox News vs Obama.
My mind instantly zoomed toward the Roman emperor Constantine. What an incredible time period! A Roman emperor converting to Christianity and expanding Jesus throughout the empire. A breathe of fresh air for Christians at this time after they had been the prized paper view slaughter pieces the Romans were showcasing. Seriously, they were the $49.99 click on me button to watch human blood and brains splatter.
One minute a Christian was used as a volleyball amidst a pride of lions and the next, Constantine is celebrating these followers of Christ. Constantine in one sweeping motion, slaughtered those who were slaughtering Christians and bestowed Christians with gifts and freedoms. Very similar to Moses delivering the Israelites. Freedom was restored to Christianity and Constantine expanded the Kingdom of God on this earth (as was his interpretation).
The question to think about is:
have we looked back into our history records to find out what will happen next and prepare for it?
Can we be happy with freedoms still granted to us?
What do we do when we see a new pattern of change?
Change is inevitable, so how can we tactfully maneuver through it?
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41 Comments
rose clancy
05.12.2010
Fox news is to the republican party what cnn is to the democratic party.
If they (fox) were disrespectful to the president during an interview, shame on them for not respecting the office. I’d bet cnn had its moments of disrespect when Bush was in office.
holaratcha
05.12.2010
you are absolutely correct. both sides have different views concerning our leaders in power. we can even throw in comedy central, late show, tonight show, saturday night live and most current programming.
JuliaKate
05.12.2010
i’ve been corrupted:-/ i went and did life for a while in an “agnostic” country and i loved it. i don’t love agnosticism, but i think the idea of a “christian country” is a fantasy. it’s like the idea that if your daddy is a christian, then you get into heaven too. countries have no souls, therefore they can’t be christian. and i am also a weirdy because i don’t believe our country was founded on pure christian principles. but then again, i’m native american, so i’m biased;)
Obama is just a man. Obama was elected to do business on behalf of the american people. but the american people are divided and diverse. it’s not a religious issue. but anyway, change is inevitable and no matter where you live, as long as people are there will be reason for dispute and discourse.
Sue Petrovic
05.12.2010
Jesus was never concerned about the politics of the day or whether or not the Jews were living free from oppression….His only concern was would He find faith on the earth when He returned….
holaratcha
05.12.2010
wow juliakate, love ur blog and ur script. gold digger!! thx for adding ur thoughts.
Robert Mestatas
05.12.2010
#1 The person who wrote the post on Fox News vs Obama is obviously clueless and has grossly distorted the facts. Not surprising, I have come to expect this from the left and main stream media. That is why Fox destroys other so called news organizations during prime time. People are looking for honesty and balance. #2 Organized religion today is in desperate need of leadership. Having a form of Godliness but, lacking any real power, “impotent”. Hence the exodus of the masses. Our faith is trampled in the media, our schools and our government while we sit back and let it continue. When real World/Nationalleadership emerges and all the bloviating is followed with some real demonstration of power, this will change. Until then, expect more of the same.
Anonymous
05.12.2010
The title of this blog post is misleading. I read this post hoping to understand why some churches hate Obama, but you did not actually provide an explanation. You mentioned that individuals might hate Obama due to his race, and that Fox News is biased against Obama, but I missed your opinion of why an actual church (as an organization, not individuals) would hate Obama.
Given that he has made a lot of social advances to help the poor (among other things), which is a Christian value, I’m not sure why any church would be against him, and I know lots of churches that do support his work.
Linda Beck
05.12.2010
Jesus respected the office of the government by making sure that he paid his taxes. Jesus, however, knew what his personal calling was and focused on that. Some Christians are called to the political arena. When they are, we must support them. Some are called to the spiritual arena, so we need to support that too. I seriously doubt that there any political arguments going on in heaven right now. On the other hand, God in heaven, I’m sure, understands the physical parameters in which we must live. As long as what we support backs up the ultimate authority of the Word of God, it’s good to have a balance of political and spiritual exercise.
Jane Hilt
05.13.2010
Hate the sin love the sinner. We have to bite the proverbial bullet–he’s here for awhile. PRAY. REPENT if as a Christian, a true Christian, you voted for him, ESPECIALLY if it was a reaction against Bush. Just plain wrong logic, wasn’t it? As Christians, we should hate sin: socialism (stealing), homosexuality, abortion, lying…but love and pray for the sinner, and honor the office. Do hard things, do what’s right.
Robert Mestatas
05.13.2010
In reply to the above post as to why any church would be against the President. While Senator, Mr. Obama was the ONLY member of the senate to deny the right to live to a baby that survived a botched abortion. Senator Obama openly mocked the bible and Christians in a speech http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvnY8WY24bA&feature=player_embedded. President Obama in June of 09′ declared June National Gay, Lesbiean and Transvestite month. President Obama denies that America is a christian country in order to appease the Muslims of the world. I know most blacks are against the gay agenda and abortion, yet 98% of Blacks in America voted for Obama and they are overwhelmingly christian. Either they have put color above religion or they are just ignorant of the issues. Someone help me, I would really like to know, how can any christian support the policies of this president? Jesus respected government but, I doubt he held Herod and the Pharisees in high esteem. Finally, as for Mr. Obama helping the poor, lets just say it is very easy to spend other peoples hard earned money. Entitlement programs enslave people not empower them to greatness.
Sue Petrovic
05.13.2010
Anyone who knows me, knows I’m very interested in politics & about what is happening in our government & around the world…my husband has been trying for years to get me to run for some office or another. I tell him “No thank you…I wouldn’t survive all the garbage they dig up on you & sling as a way of campaigning…” But the truth of the matter is—we are called to be Christian no matter who’s in office. And some of the things that are happening in our country & around the world must happen to fulfill end-time prophecy…have you ever seen a time where the possibility for a one-world government & currency could actually happen??? Jesus warned us that persecution was coming….did we really think we would escape it?? The world hated Him…so they will certainly hate us…I’m not saying we sit around & do nothing…but we get off focusing on the wrong things. Now is the time to draw closer to our Savior…to examine ourselves to see if He is truly found in us….be/c when he returns…He is looking for faith-filled believers.
Great post AT….stirred a lot of us up!
J. Zotos
05.13.2010
Well Said Sue!
Jane Hilt
05.14.2010
As I thought about the main concern of too much complaining from the church—I really think a lot of Christians, yes Christians, realized we really “aren’t in Kansas anymore”, and their fear and a sense of a lack of safety comes out in complaining, frustration and anger. I agree with Robert, those are the hard facts, the president is one dangerous man, and also with Sue, that we certainly need to cultivate our personal walk with the Lord, and focus on His priorities. One of the priorities with God is Israel, and should be with us, too. Prayerfully read Psalms through every month with Israel in mind—it will amaze you!
JuliaKate
05.14.2010
thanks for the blog shout out Holaratcha Thompson… glad you enjoyed it:)
and Jane… wow the sin of Socialism, which is stealing? read the book of Acts. Democracy is a secular concept. it’s the way of the land, so i submit to it and vote, but there is no voting or law making or amending in the Kingdom of God. God set up a Kingdom. perhaps that’s why we get so confused trying to separate our culture from the Kingdom culture. anyway, i’m not hating on democracy, but i don’t hate on socialism either, since both “miss the mark” if you catch my drift.
oh & Robert… pretty sure it would be Gay, Lesbian, & Trans-gender month, not transvestite. I love Gay people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Robert Mestatas
05.14.2010
Trans-gender, transvestite, gays, liberals, socialists, I love them all too. I just don’t want them holding public office or teaching my kids and I don’t think the founding fathers would have either. Hope that doesn’t make me a bad guy. Jane, I’m taking your advice on Psalms, maybe it will mellow me out a little.
JuliaKate
05.14.2010
sometimes i get confused… in the church of acts, did they practice socialism or communism? we are teaching portions of both to our kids weekly within the Church. Whoah! did i just type that? too bad my computer doesn’t have a backspace button, lol;)
Anonymous
05.15.2010
@Robert In my book, bigots are considered “bad guys.” Would you classify the Civil Rights Movement as the Black Agenda? Because that is akin to saying the “gay agenda.”
And why would you be so opposed to people who have different beliefs than you teaching your children? Is it because you fear your children might actually become more tolerant than you clearly are? If you are so sure that your beliefs are correct, what is wrong with letting your children be exposed to different beliefs, and then giving them the opportunity to make their own decisions?
Jane Hilt
05.15.2010
Hi Juliekate. Just a clarification on Acts idea of “socialism”—it was all from the heart, not forced taking from the rich to give to the poor, aka Robin Hood syndrome. God is all about the heart, not human coercion. The world’s idea of socialism is stealing. God’s not the author of confusion–that’s the worlds thing. I have read Acts quite a bit, and that’s my takeAnd we’re not a Democracy, but a Republic. We hate the homosexual SIN, but love that sinner, right?
Robert Mestatas
05.15.2010
Dear anonymous, sorry but, I don’t see what connection being black or the civil rights movement has with the “gay agenda” and I don’t see anything in the Bible about civil rights or being black constituting an abomination to God. However, there is such a reference to homosexuals. Therefore, I don’t want them influencing my kids, no matter how fashonable that has becomne in todays politically correct society. That dosen’t mean I can’t love gays. I don’t need to expose my children to rattlesnakes to teach them they are dangerous. Liberals and socialists in this country generally support the gay movement, therefore, I don’t support them. If this makes me a bigot, so be it. I guess if I said I don’t like soul food, that would make me a racist in your eyes. One of my greatest hero’s is Thomas Sowell, a great and brilliant American who happens to be black. I love him for his common sense approach to problem solving in America. He is not a victim or a whiner with his hand out, he is a thinker. If you don’t know him, you should. What an excellant roll model for the black community or any community for that matter. And finnally, please don’t judge other christians by my words, I don’t speak for anyone but myself. I know where I’m going if Jesus dosen’t save me, I am far too opinionated. Also, I must apologize because, obviously I have offended you. Forgive me
JuliaKate
05.15.2010
here’s where i’m coming from, so i can just completely invalidate myself in the eyes of a few of you… i should just say that every time someone states that they love the sinner, but hate the SIN it’s generally used in referring to homosexuality. let’s be honest, most christians do not love homosexuals. christians have a hard enough time loving their neighbor that isn’t gay. love is an action, we’ve all heard the sermon. but in this case, “love” is a prerequisite to justify what’s coming next, our “hate”.
now i could say that i love you, but don’t condone your opinion and way of life. or i could just say i love you jane, but i hate your SIN… you do have sin, right?
we hate their sin because it’s dirty and perverse. he hated it because it kept the soul in bondage and he came to bring freedom. talk about heart.
i’m not a patriot, i’m not nationalist. i actually believe it’s a “sin” for me to surrender my allegiance to a particular nation/system. just thought i’d add in the last part for kicks;)
JuliaKate
05.15.2010
oh and also… i don’t believe that we hate sin as much as we think we do. we would be a very different people if we did and this world would be a very different place if christians really hated sin.
Anonymous
05.15.2010
@Robert, I’m not offended, but thank you for your apology. I’m just still shocked that in this day in age people really do not see how discrimination against homosexuals in not bigoted.
Here is how gay rights (“gay agenda”) is similar to the Civil Rights movement:
I think we can all agree that African Americans are born with the color of their skin, correct? Therefore it is discrimination to have separate laws for them on this basis, because it violates the Constitution, which grants everyone equal protection under the law. This is the exact same with homosexuals. The evidence indicates that homosexuality is not a choice, it is biological. However, even if you do not believe that, and think it is a “lifestyle” as I so often hear, it is still discrimination either way under the Constitution to try to ban them from teaching your children, prevent them from marrying, etc.
You saying that you do not like soul food is not racist, that is merely an opinion, and it is fine to have different opinions. What would be racist is if you said that because you don’t like soul food, it should therefore be illegal to sell or consume it in this country.
The problem that I have with your arguments (and Christians who share your views) is that you have decided that because you have the opinion that something is wrong, that that gives you the right to discriminate against other people, and use the government and legal system to enact these discriminatory laws.
And before you argue that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, just like murder is, and murder is illegal, so homosexuality should be too, those arguments are also not really valid in our country. Mainly because we are supposed to have separation of church and state, so you cannot make laws based on the Bible. Period. Just like you cannot makes laws based on the Quran, or any other religious text. If you don’t like that then move to another country, because that is the foundation of this country, and the founding fathers would surely agree.
Jane Hilt
05.15.2010
Juliekate–but I perceive that you are way too young to be cynical about Chritians! We have all sinned and fall short of the Glory of God, for sure, He said it. That won’t stop me from hating my sin as well as others. (Romans 7) So are you saying homosexuality, or adultery for that matter, is just my opinion and way of life and not SIN? There’s a big difference, you know. It’s hard, if not impossible to repent of an opinion or way of life!! I just happen to believe that’s what’s needed. You believe that’s wrong, JulieKate?
Well, in the meantime, let’s lighten up on Christians and their perceived hypocrisy–the world’s full of hypocrisy, they just haven’t come to acknowledging it yet. We Christians (esp first generation ones) have LOTS of baggage to deal with, but that’s what the church is for–to heal, comfort, and exhort those in need of it in the church (that would be you and me). BTW, I have homosexual friends and I frequent their store, and do not even consider their sexual prefs—it’s a prayer need for sure, but as long as they don’t flaunt it in my face like the Gay Pride parade does, I love and pray for them. I do have issues with out and out perversity, don’t you?
I do wonder why you think you’re going to “invalidate” yourself in the eyes of a “few of us”? I think conservative Christians as myself can handle less-conservative ideas and opinions-give us that much credit, and we’ll do the same for you!
Do you see my earlier point on the book of Acts re: socialism/ social justice?
Jane Hilt
05.15.2010
Anonymous– The original and ONLY intent of the need for “separation of church and state” was to keep the STATE out of the church, and not at all vice versa.
Also, there is NO “homosexual gene” EVER discovered–because there is none. Therefore, to even consider comparing Gay rights to civil rights, is an insult to African-Americans. It is clearly stated in Romans 1 what God’s perception on homosexuality is, as well as bestiality, etc. It’s for our own good that He condemns these acts. He also hates adultery (made the top 10) and divorce—also for our own good. But He gave a way out, should we fall short–it’s called repentance. That’s a good thing, because He’s faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness! You see, He knows our adversary, how devious and sinister and hateful he is, and God only wants to warn and protect us from falling prey to his traps, in our thinking and reasoning as well as in our behavior, which follows the reasoning. So one needs to start with renewing the mind to proper, sound, firm,safe ,stable and Biblical thoughts.
Hey, it’s not at all about having a right to discriminate against someone, but a right to express my faith without fear of being called a hater, and having everything I believe and say twisted to be hateful, in the hopes of SILENCING me. That is downright evil. So, In order to successfully dialogue, in hopes of ever possibly understanding one another, we have to drop the fear tactics and name-calling or pre-conceived judgments. After all, I could be wrong/you could be wrong. Best to start there.
Jane Hilt
05.16.2010
JuliaKate and Anonymous, please read this!http://www.christianpost.com/article/20100408/conservative-pediatricians-advise-schools-against-gay-affirming-policies/index.html
Jane Hilt
05.16.2010
This article should be a BIG reason to have a healthy, holy hatred for the current administration’s influence. The Word says we are to hate those who hate God with “perfect hatred”—and we count them our enemies. Well, I hate the spiritual forces driving this administration—because they hate God.http://cnsnews.com/commentary/article/55089
Robert Mestatas
05.17.2010
This is one of the best comments on Socialism in America today that I have seen! If a white person had written it, it would be considered extremely racist, but since Star Parker is black and admittedly a by-product of the “welfare state,” it is acknowledged as a person speaking from experience.
Star Parker – Syndicated Columnist
Six years ago I wrote a book called Uncle Sam’s Plantation . I wrote the book to tell my own
story of what I saw living inside the welfare state and my own transformation out of it.
I said in that book that indeed there are two Americas —
a poor America on socialism and a wealthy America on capitalism.
I talked about government programs like Temporary Assistance for Needy Families
(TANF), Job Opportunities and Basic Skills Training (JOBS), Emergency
Assistance to Needy Families with Children (EANF), Section 8 Housing, and Food Stamps.
A vast sea of perhaps well-intentioned government programs, all initially set into
motion in the 1960s by Democrats, that were going to lift the nation’s poor out of poverty.
A benevolent Uncle Sam welcomed mostly poor black Americans onto the
government plantation. Those who accepted the invitation switched mindsets from
“How do I take care of myself?” to “What do I have to do to stay on the plantation?”
Instead of solving economic problems, government welfare socialism created monstrous
moral and spiritual problems — the kind of problems that are inevitable when
individuals turn responsibility for their lives over to others.
The legacy of American socialism is our blighted inner cities,
dysfunctional inner city schools, and broken black families.
Through God’s grace, I found my way out. It was then that I
understood what freedom meant and how great this country is.
I had the privilege of working on welfare reform in 1996 which
was passed by a Republican controlled Congress.
I thought we were on the road to moving socialism out of our poor black
communities and replacing it with wealth-producing American capitalism.
But, incredibly, we are now going in the opposite direction.
Instead of poor America on socialism becoming more like rich American on
capitalism, rich America on capitalism is becoming like poor America on socialism.
Uncle Sam has welcomed our banks onto the plantation and they have said, “Thank you, Suh.”
Now, instead of thinking about what creative things need to be done to serve customers,
they are thinking about what they have to tell Massah in order to get their cash.
There is some kind of irony that this is all happening under our first black
president on the 200th anniversary of the birthday of Abraham Lincoln.
Worse, socialism seems to be the element of our new young president. And maybe
even more troubling, our corporate executives seem happy to move onto the plantation.
In an op-Ed on the opinion page of the Washington Post, Mr. Obama is clear that the goal
of his trillion dollar spending plan is much more than short term economic stimulus.
“This plan is more than a prescription for short-term spending — it’s a strategy for America ‘s long-term
growth and opportunity in areas such as renewable energy, healthcare, and education.”
Perhaps more incredibly, Obama seems to think that government taking over an economy is a new idea.
Or that massive growth in government can take place “with unprecedented transparency and accountability.”
Yes, sir, we heard it from Jimmy Carter when he created the Department of Energy,
the Synfuels Corporation, and the Department of Education.
Or how about the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964 — The War on Poverty — which
President Johnson said “…does not merely expand old programs or improve what is already
being done. It charts a new course. It strikes at the causes, not just the consequences of poverty.”
Trillions of dollars later, black poverty is the same. But black families are not,
with triple the incidence of single-parent homes and out-of-wedlock births.
It’s not complicated.
Americans can accept Barack Obama’s invitation to move onto the plantation.
Or they can choose personal responsibility and freedom.
Does anyone really need to think about what the choice should be?
“The trouble with socialism is that
eventually you run out of other people’s money.”
TRUER WORDS WERE NEVER SPOKEN!
Anonymous
05.17.2010
@Jane: I find it interesting that you say that you want to be able to express you opinion without being labeled a “hater,” in your first repsonse to me, but you later say several times that you are filled with hate – for the current adminsitration for example. You also said that you honor the office, but you then say you have a “holy hatred” for it and consider it your “enemy.” That seems contradictory to me. But I guess you already know that, since you said that lots of Christians are hypocrites and rationalize it by claiming you have lots of baggage to deal with. 99% of the world has “lots of baggage,” that still does not justify discriminatory acts against others. And just an FYI, hate is never “healthy” as you claim. Hate is like holding onto a hot coal with the intention of throwing it at someone. The only person who gets burned is you.
However, you are right about not wanting to be silenced. Just because I vehemently disagree with you and feel you are spreading hate and ignorance does not mean I feel you should be silent. I fully support freedom of speech, since that is a tenet of the Constituion. As much as I disagree with the hate rallys held by Neo-Nazi’s, for example, I fully support their right to demonstrate.
What you said about there not being a gay gene is correct – there hasn’t been one discovered. But you twisted my words, as I never suggested there is a gay gene. I said that it is “biological.” There is a difference between biology and genetics, I’m sorry if you are not educated in the matter. For example, there is evidence that differences in prenatal environment influence sexuality. This is not genetic, it is biological. You claim that I could be right or you could be right, but actually, I am right about this, as I have actually scientific evidence and facts to back up my point, you just have propoganda fed to you by your church and Fox News. Regardless, you missed my point entirely, which is that the Constitution is supposed to guarantee equal protection for all, regardless of whether or not you like what they do in the bedroom. And I do find it amusing that you also twisted the interpretation of the Constitution to assume that the Church can influence the government – though I don’t find this surprising that you would do so. Fortunately, the Supreme Court, and most liberals and conservatives, are on my side, not yours.
I am already aware of the article you posted about schools reacting to gay students. But the The American College of Pediatricians is not a real organization, they are made up and not recognized as legitimate by any medical association. It is just more propoganda that you are choosing to belief, mistakenly.
What makes me most sad about you and Robert and the articles you choose to read and post is that these are examples of you not using your brains to think critically. You are buying into propoganda without actually analyzing the validity of it. I don’t write these rebuttals because I expect to change you, but I do want to at least give you the opportunity to think critically and actually digest alternate viewpoints. The course of history has shown that very bad things happen when people who stop thinking and start blidly accepting what others tell them (e.g. the Holocaust). I’m sorry if you are so filled with hate that you have found a way to direct it at others, like the President, but I do think that there are healthier alternatives you could engage in, like therapy (from a licensed psychologist, not a pastor or Christian counselor) to help you explore some of the issues with whcih you are so clearly struggling.
holaratcha
05.17.2010
Brilliant interactions, communication, thoughts, understandings and findings. Great thoughts to chew on for all of us.
Jane Hilt
05.17.2010
Well, Gee first of all, I said I hate the spiritual forces behind the current administration not the people. see Psalm 139:18-22. You do not understand much of what I am saying because, Anonymous, it is spiritually discerned. So you’re just picking at straws and spouting off much of what you know nothing about. Arrogance: ego + ignorance. (All your) knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. There is nothing wrong with hating sin. You just hate the word hate, don’t you? I guess that means there’s such a thing as “hate baiters”?
Let’s be real–what gays do is not God-inspired or God-desired, but often leads to untimely DEATH. I hate that, too. It’s the work of the devil. Have you read the articles yet?
You have childish assumptions about my sources of information. Believe it or not, I don’t watch Fox news. So I guess you aren’t as wise as you’d like me to think. Our Founding fathers never considered homosexual acts in writing the constitution when they were considering our God given rights!! Can’t pull that one over on me either. BTW, I have a BS in Biological Science (Human Nutrition to be exact) and understand that there are unfortunate things people can even eat nowadays (xenoestrogens) that can possibly influence what would have been NORMAL sexual development–it is unfortunate indeed for the child, but this still was NOT GOD, and that is my POINT. It grieves His heart to see His children struggle . He’s a good God. Do you believe that? So they need help, love understanding, prayer, support—but not a homosexual lifestyle. Have you ever talked to someone from Exodus Intl? You may want to look into that, if you haven’t. There’s a book out called “Do Hard Things” by Alex and Brett Harris. It may serve you well to purchase and read it. Life throws us some hardballs, some curveballs, but like God said in Genesis to Cain when he was tempted to kill Abel–”sin is lurking at the door, but you must MASTER it.” That’s why He sent Jesus! We’re not alone in this fight with evil forces, and with the flesh. But this is all spiritually discerned. If all you want to do is
argue and spout off, so be it, but you’re wasting your time, when you could be growing in the grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Finally, since you don’t really know me except from your biased view of my brand of Christianity, and since you think I can’t think in what you call “critically”, let me say that many years ago I was a radical leftist, full of attitude much like yours. My best friend was a member of the radical SDS organization. My first college course was in Political Science, with an atheist, openly Marxist instructor. I wrote a venomous paper straight from my wayward heart on something Marxist and, believe it or not, got an A+. I disliked and distrusted anything that smelled of conservative, believe me, and was headed toward death and destruction and an early grave—but the Lord did a miracle in my HEART, Anonymous, to whom I am profoundly grateful, some 25 years later. He can do the same for you. Watch for it.
That is why I hate the works of the devil, which is influencing this administration. Like I SAID–We are to hate sin, but not the sinner. We love them through prayer. It’s spiritually discerned.
Jane Hilt
05.17.2010
Robert, excellent, succinct expose’ by a very wise woman!
JuliaKate
05.18.2010
didn’t realize this was still going on. i was moving on with my socialist loving, non-repentant Obama voting, childish life;) i realized something the other day, i have a very different world view than Jane and we are both speaking from our views. what i understand as truth is what i choose to live out. i am not afraid of the “gay agenda” or of any other worldly agenda for that matter.
big surprise, i live in Los Angeles. Even bigger surprise, i’m a PK, DK, MK. another fun surprise, i come from a family of protestant pain in the asses. and last one just for fun, i’d rather resemble Christ than his followers, since a lot of his followers often times resemble a subtle form of the Anti-him.
Jane Hilt
05.18.2010
JuliaKate—Just make sure you’re fully persuaded that you’re loving His kids as much as you claim to want to be like Him! That’s where true Biblical Truth is played out–and no generation gaps allowed with Christ in case you think that excludes us older folks..
Your faith has to be your own, PK notwithstanding, but why dishonor your family by calling them “protestant pain in the asses”? Do you have kids yet? Judging and/or not honoring your family (parents included?) will cost you dearly—I encourage you to not go that way, tempting as it may be. I fell into that trap as a teenager, and in retrospect, it caused many many problems, until I knew enough to- -here goes that word–REPENT!!!
Yes, our worldviews are different, I certainly interpret the book of Acts and socialism differently than you—doesn’t mean I am wrong, though. Right now it’s just different, and a sore spot with you for some reason—pain in the ass family possibly? Just for kicks, read 1 John 1-5. If you don’t love us who are different from you (guard your mouth , because it betrays you), you don’t love Him. But fear not, we’re all in this together.
You can be tolerant, and I’ll show forebearance. We’ll both meet at long-suffering!
Amazingly, consider that we capitalism loving, non repentant for non-Obama voting childLIKE believers are just as sincere as you are in our desire to resemble Christ, too. And thank God for His mercy. Mercy overcomes judgment.
Then read John 17. Jesus prayed for unity among His children—it’s the only way the world will know Him! Grace and Peace to you!
JuliaKate
05.19.2010
i was honoring my family;) we are proud of being protestant pain in the asses. every single one of us. all bloggers, all ministers, all assets to any church & at the same time pains in the ass. we have always questioned & pushed. my mother was the pastor in charge of hospice visits. i hugged on homosexuals my entire childhood, and even ones with HIV & AIDS. i never heard her once make them feel dirty or less than her. if anything, some actually got saved and died saved homosexuals. forgiven and now in heaven. the prayer wasn’t “and forgive me for a being a homo…” it was “forgive me of my sin” just like you prayed. My parents were missionaries to assist haitian refugees… so i also have a deep love for the immigrant & refugee.
i brought up Obama and my age in reference to some of your previous comments like: “REPENT if as a Christian, a true Christian, you voted for him”. Are you serious? that was the wildest thing i’ve read in a long time.
Anyway, about the age thing, i have read Job and deeply understood the words of Elihu… age is not a factor.
this has definitely been an interesting dialogue, but i’m going to go ahead and move on.
(dusts her feet)
Kate
05.19.2010
JuliaKate, absolutely the best post of this dialogue!
Jane Hilt
05.19.2010
You know, thank God He is a BIG God with a big perspective, knowing all hearts—I’m fully persuaded He can handle it all and sort it out. I’m glad to hear they died saying”forgive me of my sin”, and not for” being a homo”—my point all along. I am Hospice trained, and my dad had hospice care for one day—I got to hug him–does that count?:) It would be horrible and really hypocritical if your mom would have felt dirty in any way in ministering to the patients, whatever their issue. Your love and passion and compassion for the immigrant and refugees is commendable and constitutes a call most likely, JuliaKate. However, I do agree and stand with Arizona, due to the murders and extreme unsafe conditions. Another problem I have with this administration—they are doing NOTHING regarding illegal immigration so Arizona had to. Shame.
Well, I do believe Obama voters certainly can be SAVED, but may need to search their hearts in regards to repenting of less than Biblical motives for voting for him. (I don’t believe in separating my politics from my faith) If they, for instance looked past his voting record on abortion in its most severe form, and his association with a church that hates white people and promotes Black Liberation Theology (have you studied that one?), and for his stance on how mideast peace will be achieved (ie imposing a solution on Israel)—and his blatant disrespect and disregard for Israel, well, I ask why? I find it the wildest form of reasoning and logic, to vote for someone who does these things and much more, and still be able to go home and read the Word and not be convicted/ not be grieved. Needing to repent doesn’t men you’re not saved, though.
So dust off those feet and move on but be aware that the devil is a legalist in its purest form, and will use your words—idle, careless or reckless “cool”as they may seem—and turn them back on you to steal, kill and destroy you if he can—and he did it all legally, because you didn’t take the admonition “Death and Life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit”!! So don’t call anyone a pain in the ass and expect blessings in your family life—but strife.
More grace and peace to you!
Michael Adeleke
11.04.2010
Whether we agree with him or not we must respect him.. At my house, we make sure to watch the news in moderation and not to watch it when commentators deliberately demean the President.
ProperVillain
01.22.2011
Of course you fail to mention the fact that after the Revived Roman Empire became “Christian” they tended to “convert” people by the point of a sword. This is why any religion should not be in charge of the government, it will invariably lead to abuses. History shows this to be true.
holaratcha
01.22.2011
really enjoyed your feedback and insights. Great to hear from thinkers. cheers.
Damien
07.12.2011
I’ll say this, it’s kinda funny if not down-right hilarious how Christians always say “America is a Christian Nation” well I offer alternate proof that the founders were not only NOT CHRISTIANS but fervently opposed it according to their writings on the subject:
John Adams
“God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world.”
George Washington
“Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by the difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be depreciated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.” — letter to Edward Newenham, 1792
Benjamin Franklin
“In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it.”
Thomas Jefferson
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.” – letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774
“I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.”
“Christianity is the most perverted system ever shone to man.”
“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear.”
“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”
The Treaty of Tripoli:
“As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,–as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,–and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mohammedan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever interrupt the harmony existing between the two countries.”
Now these are not my words but just some of the founders quotes against Christianity. So actually look more into history than through supposed history that the “your Church” has you believe. Remember that they (the founders of our nation) were actually trying to get away from the oppression of King George and the lack of freedom, especially of Religion, imposed, though by indirect means, the Church of England.
ThompsonWrites
07.12.2011
Thx for sharing your insights and research. Very extensive and interesting. Look forward to hearing more from you.
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